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	<title>Comments on: The Shadow of Manhattan</title>
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	<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/2008/08/05/the-shadow-of-manhattan/</link>
	<description>The source on how we live, work and play</description>
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		<title>By: Maksym435</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/2008/08/05/the-shadow-of-manhattan/comment-page-1/#comment-47510</link>
		<dc:creator>Maksym435</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>OnkelSeosErbe Contest…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OnkelSeosErbe Contest…</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. J</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/2008/08/05/the-shadow-of-manhattan/comment-page-1/#comment-4955</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 09:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/?p=2003#comment-4955</guid>
		<description>And just to go beyond that little capitalist rant, I wanted to draw your attention to my new favourite disc spinning round down here in Auckland. 

Tiki Taane grew up in the drum &#039;n bass scene here in NZ, moving into the burgeoning dub reggae scene with Salmonella Dub, and now is hoisting his sail in the hip hop/dub/reggae scene with his solo project. 

Check out www.tikidub.com

His solo album is in te reo Maori, the spoken language of the Maori people. The album features traditional Maori instruments, taonga puoro (literally, singing treasures)raps and lyrics in spoken Maori, and the typical hip hop beat and rhythm that is common around the world.

So not only is Manhattan inspiring the urban soundscapes of the world but it is also helping a disparate group of indigenous people, both rural and urban down here in NZ, find their own voice.

So what this opens up is the whole discussion of how music opens up the dialogue of identity, protest, and change. Is the self-affirming identity of Maori musicians comparable to the self-affirming identity of the urban Manhattanites that strut their stuff around the music videos and dancehalls of the world? 

Eric in Aotearoa</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And just to go beyond that little capitalist rant, I wanted to draw your attention to my new favourite disc spinning round down here in Auckland. </p>
<p>Tiki Taane grew up in the drum &#8216;n bass scene here in NZ, moving into the burgeoning dub reggae scene with Salmonella Dub, and now is hoisting his sail in the hip hop/dub/reggae scene with his solo project. </p>
<p>Check out <a href="http://www.tikidub.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.tikidub.com</a></p>
<p>His solo album is in te reo Maori, the spoken language of the Maori people. The album features traditional Maori instruments, taonga puoro (literally, singing treasures)raps and lyrics in spoken Maori, and the typical hip hop beat and rhythm that is common around the world.</p>
<p>So not only is Manhattan inspiring the urban soundscapes of the world but it is also helping a disparate group of indigenous people, both rural and urban down here in NZ, find their own voice.</p>
<p>So what this opens up is the whole discussion of how music opens up the dialogue of identity, protest, and change. Is the self-affirming identity of Maori musicians comparable to the self-affirming identity of the urban Manhattanites that strut their stuff around the music videos and dancehalls of the world? </p>
<p>Eric in Aotearoa</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. J</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/2008/08/05/the-shadow-of-manhattan/comment-page-1/#comment-4953</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 08:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/?p=2003#comment-4953</guid>
		<description>G&#039;day - I like what you&#039;re trying to draft here by discussing how Manhattan and New York&#039;s social atmosphere has had a huge impact on the cultural fabric of the city, and through the American mass media machine the rest of the world.

Immediately after reading your post Coyote, I started to imagine other aspects of world culture changing in tune with the urban landscape - French Impressionism painting, 20th century stream of consciousness literature. Now for some reason, these art forms have not had the same lasting impact on global mass culture. Rather, they retained an element of the elite that didn&#039;t bow down to popular sentiment. (Are Adam Sandler and Will Ferrell the heirs of Groucho Marx and the vaudeville tradition?)

So, Kwende, I wonder if this is your main thrust: that the current global culture has grown up in the shadow of American capitalism more than Manhattan&#039;s unique urban landscape?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G&#8217;day &#8211; I like what you&#8217;re trying to draft here by discussing how Manhattan and New York&#8217;s social atmosphere has had a huge impact on the cultural fabric of the city, and through the American mass media machine the rest of the world.</p>
<p>Immediately after reading your post Coyote, I started to imagine other aspects of world culture changing in tune with the urban landscape &#8211; French Impressionism painting, 20th century stream of consciousness literature. Now for some reason, these art forms have not had the same lasting impact on global mass culture. Rather, they retained an element of the elite that didn&#8217;t bow down to popular sentiment. (Are Adam Sandler and Will Ferrell the heirs of Groucho Marx and the vaudeville tradition?)</p>
<p>So, Kwende, I wonder if this is your main thrust: that the current global culture has grown up in the shadow of American capitalism more than Manhattan&#8217;s unique urban landscape?</p>
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		<title>By: Kwende Kefentse</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/2008/08/05/the-shadow-of-manhattan/comment-page-1/#comment-4946</link>
		<dc:creator>Kwende Kefentse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 03:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/?p=2003#comment-4946</guid>
		<description>Hey Coyote,

Thanks for your comment!  When I said modern New York, I was referring to New York as redeveloped by Title&#039;s I, II and III of 1949&#039;s National Housing Act and the example of city building that it represented.  As &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/2008/08/07/beijings-birds-nest/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bruce Kuwabara&#039;s post&lt;/a&gt; points out, New York was considered the capital of the 20th century.  It became that by changing it&#039;s built environment in many ways subsequent to that 1949 Housing Act -  by that time Zeppo and Gummo had already left for Hollywood.

We&#039;ll get further into what exactly I mean by &quot;modern&quot; in future posts, but that was a great pitch to bat back.  You also make a great point in your second post about the city being a incubator for innovation and performance through the scenes it creates and the outlets that those scenes provide.  That&#039;s exactly what we&#039;re here to talk about!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Coyote,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment!  When I said modern New York, I was referring to New York as redeveloped by Title&#8217;s I, II and III of 1949&#8217;s National Housing Act and the example of city building that it represented.  As <a href="http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/2008/08/07/beijings-birds-nest/" rel="nofollow">Bruce Kuwabara&#8217;s post</a> points out, New York was considered the capital of the 20th century.  It became that by changing it&#8217;s built environment in many ways subsequent to that 1949 Housing Act &#8211;  by that time Zeppo and Gummo had already left for Hollywood.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll get further into what exactly I mean by &#8220;modern&#8221; in future posts, but that was a great pitch to bat back.  You also make a great point in your second post about the city being a incubator for innovation and performance through the scenes it creates and the outlets that those scenes provide.  That&#8217;s exactly what we&#8217;re here to talk about!</p>
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		<title>By: grey coyote</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/2008/08/05/the-shadow-of-manhattan/comment-page-1/#comment-4924</link>
		<dc:creator>grey coyote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/?p=2003#comment-4924</guid>
		<description>actually, i guess what my subconcious was really trying to say was... VAUDEVILLE!!! the marx brothers came out of vaudeville, and as soon as there were cities to make a circuit of, artists and performers were on it, developing thousands of original acts that were comprised of dozens and dozens of styles of performance... and before that, ooopahh! gypsy caravans and other wagon loads of creative freaks! party!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually, i guess what my subconcious was really trying to say was&#8230; VAUDEVILLE!!! the marx brothers came out of vaudeville, and as soon as there were cities to make a circuit of, artists and performers were on it, developing thousands of original acts that were comprised of dozens and dozens of styles of performance&#8230; and before that, ooopahh! gypsy caravans and other wagon loads of creative freaks! party!</p>
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		<title>By: grey coyote</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/2008/08/05/the-shadow-of-manhattan/comment-page-1/#comment-4908</link>
		<dc:creator>grey coyote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 07:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/?p=2003#comment-4908</guid>
		<description>whether it was your intention or not, it sounds a bit like you define the genesis of hip-hop culture as being created by the first real natives of the modern city. -i would have to debate the exact time line of when the first real natives of a modern city came into being... the marx brothers wouldn&#039;t exist if they hadn&#039;t been raised poor as dirt in new york, -and they created a wholly original cultural experience from their poverty as easily identifiable &quot;big city scam artists&quot; who had unique styles of music, dance, speech, philosophy, humour, mime, etc... -this is just one example of many that springs to mind... -bat it back man! -oh, and if you haven&#039;t seen a marx brothers movie yet, well... you haven&#039;t lived... -groucho was one of the wittiest humans to ever live... check out ratings and watch one of the best to have your senses assaulted by jackhammers of talent... -great blog entry, b.t.w....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>whether it was your intention or not, it sounds a bit like you define the genesis of hip-hop culture as being created by the first real natives of the modern city. -i would have to debate the exact time line of when the first real natives of a modern city came into being&#8230; the marx brothers wouldn&#8217;t exist if they hadn&#8217;t been raised poor as dirt in new york, -and they created a wholly original cultural experience from their poverty as easily identifiable &#8220;big city scam artists&#8221; who had unique styles of music, dance, speech, philosophy, humour, mime, etc&#8230; -this is just one example of many that springs to mind&#8230; -bat it back man! -oh, and if you haven&#8217;t seen a marx brothers movie yet, well&#8230; you haven&#8217;t lived&#8230; -groucho was one of the wittiest humans to ever live&#8230; check out ratings and watch one of the best to have your senses assaulted by jackhammers of talent&#8230; -great blog entry, b.t.w&#8230;.</p>
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