I’m basing my judgement on American rental cars of various sizes that I get when I travel. They’re poorly designed for driver ergonomics and the smaller ones are tinny sounding when you close the door. Unless they make different models for fleet sales, my judgement is they’re not anywhere near the quality of my 10 year old Subaru Outback.

Granted, they’re not as bad as 20 years ago when a co-worker of mine opened the door of his new car and it fell off in his hand. But while they’ve been improving, so have the Japanese and Europeans which are still out ahead in my experience.

Your repeated comment about the big 3’s product being junk is outdated. The quality of American made autos has been, and continues to improve. And I do not speak only of initial quality, which is important, but overall quality. You can check the facts at consumer reports, and JD Power… more and more American made cars and trucks are filling out the lists. Now as to the original issue of this post…. yes the Unions have been a historical drain on the bottom line for the Big 3, but as a child of an auto worker, I can say that the money and services that were provided by the union helped me grow up in a nice neighborhood, supplied some money for college, and has allowed my father to retire with good health care. None of these things were solely supplied from the Union, my Mother also worked a full time job to make sure ends met when it was time to pay the bills. It’s unfortunate that a stereotype of autoworkers and the memories of 1960’s Hoffa led union is what is keeping people from believing that the big 3 screwed themselves and should be left to attempt navigation through chapter 11.

I’d buy “the unions are part of the problem” but not THE problem. Even with lower wages, etc., if Detroit were building the same junk they’d be driving over the same cliff, even if they weren’t so close to the dropoff yet. The difference with the Japanese transplants is that they build quality autos — and could do even better if the government can get around the Big 3 and their unions fighting against any change.

And the Japanese companies non-union pay and benefits are pretty good because the unions exist in the other companies. As is often the case, unions make things better for everyone in an industry, even in non-union shops.

…the unions are the problem.

Japanese transplants are all non-union. Their pay and benefit packages are 25 to 25% less than the formerly big three.

Besides the direct cost savings, the non-union transplants have a flexibility that a Detroit manager could only dream of. Imagine having to negotiate every single factory change, no matter how trivial, with a union, rather than just making the change. It’s infuriating.

As for limiting consumption, we already do that. The argument is not between limiting consumption or not to do so, but where to draw the line.

Try buying a car that isn’t speed-governed. I’m sure many are not, but most these days are. Also, try buying a car without antilock brakes or airbags. Isn’t this also limiting my right to choose and my liberty?

Choice is a fundamental tenet of democracy but a delicate balance must always be weighed between individual freedoms and the need for society’s need to advance and prosper. Individuals cannot leave their dirty dishes behind for others to clean-up in the name of choice. Everyone owes a responsibility to everyone else to work toward common goals or at least not create societal problems like climate change, deteriorating infrastructure, rising energy costs, suburban sprawl, the ignoring of urban decay for so many years, etc. Hopefully in the future more people will choose to plant the shade trees under which they’ll never sit.

Choice, and the decision to choose not to accept the right of minorities to equal education is what led to the explosion of suburbia (white flight) and the suburban models that we built during the 70’s and 80’s in particular and that Detroit fed upon with the SUV culture. The big house, big yard and spacious SUV’s. Obviously, I could go and on about this topic and many of the arguments are widespread; bottom line, choice must always be the accomplice of responsibility and limits to be noble.

Health care– we have the best health care in the world, we have a bad system, that point needs to be made. But think how healthier we would be as a society if we weren’t so dependent upon the automobile and walked a lot more in our day-to-day activities.

Good points. I don’t think it’s a question of deciding what people are allowed to do. It’s what is encouraged and subsidized by the society. SUVs and mega-pickups, as well as Hummers were designed specifically to get around fuel efficiency rules, then sold with bonuses to encourage gas guzzling (Hummers even got tax breaks). The society needs to encourage conservation and alternative energy. Then if someone wants to buy, or make, a fuel guzzling Behemoth that’s their choice.

Should we start legislating horsepower in Mercedes, beamers and porsches? What about home sizes? Number of tvs, ipods, or shoes that people can own? Should we limit how much time each of us spend on blogs/web etc? (it sucks a lot of energy!) What about how many miles we can travel by air/train/car each year? I think many countries have tried this model of planning.

Also, I love this ironic comment from user name “SWORDSMAN”…An awful lot of people wanted to “feel safe” driving an SUV or looked at an SUV or a pickup as overcompensation for a diminuitive body part.

All good interesting/debate, I just want us to be careful when we pick/choose where we want to limit choice/consumption? ie We’ve stamped out ’smokers rights’, but let everyone else eat to excess/obesity and to a point that demands more health care dollars than smoking.

All cars can and should be made ‘cleaner’ and more efficient. There is no doubt. But lets be mindful when making assumptions about who has the right to consume what if we are not ready to look at the full gamut of consumption.

Right on. I don’t trust anyone with a clean, un-dented pickup. For construction workers, farmers, etc. a big pickup is a necessary tool. But for commuters, they’re a vanity toy.