Comments on: Collaboration Beyond Consensus in the White House http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/2008/12/03/collaboration-beyond-consensus-in-the-white-house/ The source on how we live, work and play Wed, 07 Dec 2011 18:10:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Kwende Kefentse http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/2008/12/03/collaboration-beyond-consensus-in-the-white-house/comment-page-1/#comment-8103 Kwende Kefentse Sat, 06 Dec 2008 17:50:20 +0000 http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/?p=5399#comment-8103 Thanks for jumping in Elizabeth, What I was trying to say is that perhaps this isn't a situation where one position needs to move further towards the other, so much as one wherein they need to find a discourse where they can be mutually understood from the positions that they occupy. Later on in that article Miessen says: "Now, I would like to argue that – in order to include the complexity of the city–one also needs to include the conflicting forces of that city. Consensus is only achieved through relationality of powers. One could argue that if such relationality would have been broken, another kind of knowledge would have been produced; one that helps us to understand the composite realities of the contemporary city and the forces at play." The value that Hiphop brings to the conversation is precisely that its pants are baggy. As something that creates complexity in the discussion of cities, and is relevant to young America, might it not be better for the discussions that Hiphop remains an alternative voice? Thanks for jumping in Elizabeth,

What I was trying to say is that perhaps this isn’t a situation where one position needs to move further towards the other, so much as one wherein they need to find a discourse where they can be mutually understood from the positions that they occupy.

Later on in that article Miessen says: “Now, I would like to argue that – in order to include the complexity of the city–one also needs to include the conflicting forces of that city. Consensus is only achieved through relationality of powers. One could argue that if such relationality would have been broken, another kind of knowledge would have been produced; one that helps us to understand the composite realities of the contemporary city and the forces at play.”

The value that Hiphop brings to the conversation is precisely that its pants are baggy. As something that creates complexity in the discussion of cities, and is relevant to young America, might it not be better for the discussions that Hiphop remains an alternative voice?

]]> By: Elizabeth M http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/2008/12/03/collaboration-beyond-consensus-in-the-white-house/comment-page-1/#comment-8078 Elizabeth M Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:12:52 +0000 http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/creative_class/?p=5399#comment-8078 Crouch's idea that there will be a huge shift merely because of a few pop culture habits Obama exhibited is just silly. They're hardly going to change Hail to the Chief to a hip hop anthem merely because of our President-elect's mannerisms, race, or work with urban America. That being said, Crouch's hopefulness that Obama's new role will help spur on at least a small change in hip hop is something I think many people can get behind. But we have to remember what sells - it will take a big name to come out of hip hop and be willing to change things up and potentially lose money and fans. An entire culture or music genre can't be altered any more rapidly than this country can be helped economically. But if Obama's classy demeanor and attire can get a few guys to, as he said, "pull up their pants" sooner rather than later, then hurrah. Crouch’s idea that there will be a huge shift merely because of a few pop culture habits Obama exhibited is just silly. They’re hardly going to change Hail to the Chief to a hip hop anthem merely because of our President-elect’s mannerisms, race, or work with urban America. That being said, Crouch’s hopefulness that Obama’s new role will help spur on at least a small change in hip hop is something I think many people can get behind. But we have to remember what sells – it will take a big name to come out of hip hop and be willing to change things up and potentially lose money and fans. An entire culture or music genre can’t be altered any more rapidly than this country can be helped economically. But if Obama’s classy demeanor and attire can get a few guys to, as he said, “pull up their pants” sooner rather than later, then hurrah.

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