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	<title>Comments on: The Sex Pistols and Economic Development</title>
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	<description>The source on how we live, work and play</description>
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		<title>By: David Barrie</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/comment-page-1/#comment-3519</link>
		<dc:creator>David Barrie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thoughts? Local Government may not have organized this particular gig but they did create the opportunity for a whole lot of other related stuff at the time - like sponsoring left-wing writing, performance and protest, allowing free concerts in parks, the Notting Hill Carnival and also so messing up how the country was run to allow anger to thrive. It seems a bit smug to me to transpose critiques of &#039;the support economy&#039; and &#039;enabling&#039; state to a time when the economy had almost collapsed, anarchy ruled and hippies, liberals and well-meaning geographers would have had the s*i* kicked out of them.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thoughts? Local Government may not have organized this particular gig but they did create the opportunity for a whole lot of other related stuff at the time &#8211; like sponsoring left-wing writing, performance and protest, allowing free concerts in parks, the Notting Hill Carnival and also so messing up how the country was run to allow anger to thrive. It seems a bit smug to me to transpose critiques of &#8216;the support economy&#8217; and &#8216;enabling&#8217; state to a time when the economy had almost collapsed, anarchy ruled and hippies, liberals and well-meaning geographers would have had the s*i* kicked out of them.</p>
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		<title>By: hayden fisher</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/comment-page-1/#comment-3518</link>
		<dc:creator>hayden fisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zstation/creativeclass/v3/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/#comment-3518</guid>
		<description>Interesting proposition, although there probably needs to remain at least a dotted line between the government/lender and the artists and entrepreneurs.  And, if the government derived revenue from the program, the offset could allow it to stop taxing productivity.

Here&#039;s the really sad point about the piece above, the vulture venture capitalists I&#039;m dealing with are lending SBA GOVERNMENT FUNDS.  They&#039;re using OUR TAX DOLLARS to engage in such chicanery.



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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting proposition, although there probably needs to remain at least a dotted line between the government/lender and the artists and entrepreneurs.  And, if the government derived revenue from the program, the offset could allow it to stop taxing productivity.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the really sad point about the piece above, the vulture venture capitalists I&#8217;m dealing with are lending SBA GOVERNMENT FUNDS.  They&#8217;re using OUR TAX DOLLARS to engage in such chicanery.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Linacre</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/comment-page-1/#comment-3517</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Linacre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zstation/creativeclass/v3/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/#comment-3517</guid>
		<description>Hayden wrote: &quot;the government could actually make money on this too via low-interest revolving loan programs.&quot;
Wouldn&#039;t it be better to have the government provide the start-up capital (and then be a silent partner) for a &quot;Grameen Bank for Artists&quot;?
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.grameen-info.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.grameen-info.org/&lt;/a&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hayden wrote: &#8220;the government could actually make money on this too via low-interest revolving loan programs.&#8221;<br />
Wouldn&#8217;t it be better to have the government provide the start-up capital (and then be a silent partner) for a &#8220;Grameen Bank for Artists&#8221;?<br />
<a href="http://www.grameen-info.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.grameen-info.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: hayden fisher</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/comment-page-1/#comment-3516</link>
		<dc:creator>hayden fisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zstation/creativeclass/v3/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/#comment-3516</guid>
		<description>Michael, you NAILED this.  Government should be making funds available for art, not administrating the art-making process.  This should be tied to economic development.  The federal government student loan program provides nearly everyone an opportunity to obtain a student loan regardless of liquidity, cash reserves and other lending criteria.  Similar loan programs should be available to artists and entrepreneurs generally so that the people with the drive, talent and ambition have access to the capital necessary to fuel their dreams.

Lenders are the worst.  And the private equity venture capital companies are largely jokes too at the small business level.  I&#039;m on my 2nd case against two vulture capital firms that literally stole two small businesses by cash-crunching them and then stealing them in a down market cycle.  I beat them handily the first time and will beat them even worse this time; but only after some very zealous and fearless advocacy.  The government should be backing the small businesses, whether they be art galleries, restaurants or startup technology companies, as a means of economic development; and then stay out of the way.  Certain criteria should be in place obviously; but the government could actually make money on this too via low-interest revolving loan programs.  If we really want to provide opportunity to people other than the already rich, this is the way to do it.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, you NAILED this.  Government should be making funds available for art, not administrating the art-making process.  This should be tied to economic development.  The federal government student loan program provides nearly everyone an opportunity to obtain a student loan regardless of liquidity, cash reserves and other lending criteria.  Similar loan programs should be available to artists and entrepreneurs generally so that the people with the drive, talent and ambition have access to the capital necessary to fuel their dreams.</p>
<p>Lenders are the worst.  And the private equity venture capital companies are largely jokes too at the small business level.  I&#8217;m on my 2nd case against two vulture capital firms that literally stole two small businesses by cash-crunching them and then stealing them in a down market cycle.  I beat them handily the first time and will beat them even worse this time; but only after some very zealous and fearless advocacy.  The government should be backing the small businesses, whether they be art galleries, restaurants or startup technology companies, as a means of economic development; and then stay out of the way.  Certain criteria should be in place obviously; but the government could actually make money on this too via low-interest revolving loan programs.  If we really want to provide opportunity to people other than the already rich, this is the way to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Wells</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/comment-page-1/#comment-3515</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Wells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 02:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zstation/creativeclass/v3/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/#comment-3515</guid>
		<description>Yes, maybe, no. Artists have always been subsidized, from Leonardo &amp; Michelangelo through the commissions for today&#039;s choreographers, etc. I don&#039;t think the government money is the problem, it&#039;s the delivery. For example the Canadian Film Board has done great things over the years. Maybe the trick is to provide the funds then get out of the way.

In the U.S. there certainly is timidity, the NEA and NEH are afraid of their shadows after decades of Christian Coalition attacks. Probably true elsewhere as well, and as the writer says if the authorities get too involved it&#039;s death by duck nibbling.

I have a friend who makes a good living as a painter selling through galleries. But her big mural commissions are all for public buildings, so far as I know.

On the other hand, the most fun art in Portland is small scale and spontaneous -- but they all have other jobs. And yes, the messy urbanism is key to new things happening.

Ironically, as Portland gets lionized as a creative center, whenever there&#039;s a study of how to encourage the arts everyone says more government funding. But in forums when musicians, playwrights and artists are asked why they moved here, they all say two things: Low cost of living and acceptance of differences.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, maybe, no. Artists have always been subsidized, from Leonardo &#038; Michelangelo through the commissions for today&#8217;s choreographers, etc. I don&#8217;t think the government money is the problem, it&#8217;s the delivery. For example the Canadian Film Board has done great things over the years. Maybe the trick is to provide the funds then get out of the way.</p>
<p>In the U.S. there certainly is timidity, the NEA and NEH are afraid of their shadows after decades of Christian Coalition attacks. Probably true elsewhere as well, and as the writer says if the authorities get too involved it&#8217;s death by duck nibbling.</p>
<p>I have a friend who makes a good living as a painter selling through galleries. But her big mural commissions are all for public buildings, so far as I know.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the most fun art in Portland is small scale and spontaneous &#8212; but they all have other jobs. And yes, the messy urbanism is key to new things happening.</p>
<p>Ironically, as Portland gets lionized as a creative center, whenever there&#8217;s a study of how to encourage the arts everyone says more government funding. But in forums when musicians, playwrights and artists are asked why they moved here, they all say two things: Low cost of living and acceptance of differences.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/comment-page-1/#comment-3514</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zstation/creativeclass/v3/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/#comment-3514</guid>
		<description>Exactly.

Subsidized, contented artists are boring. They contribute little. Yet, governments seem to think its a good idea to subsidize them when it&#039;s actually a big waste of money.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly.</p>
<p>Subsidized, contented artists are boring. They contribute little. Yet, governments seem to think its a good idea to subsidize them when it&#8217;s actually a big waste of money.</p>
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		<title>By: hayden fisher</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/comment-page-1/#comment-3513</link>
		<dc:creator>hayden fisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zstation/creativeclass/v3/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/#comment-3513</guid>
		<description>...and, come to think of it, that&#039;s pretty much how the Founding Fathers created America...garage-style.  It&#039;s hard to walk through those hallowed Philadelphia halls without wondering what it would have been like to have sat in that room with a small group of people from all walks of life and perspectives and said, hey, do you want to startup a new country, let&#039;s tell King George and the establishment of his time to go F themselves...after throwing all of their tea into a harbor.  Amazing both as a dynamic process and the indelibly sturdy static pattern and model it left behind.  We should never forget our organic origins.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;and, come to think of it, that&#8217;s pretty much how the Founding Fathers created America&#8230;garage-style.  It&#8217;s hard to walk through those hallowed Philadelphia halls without wondering what it would have been like to have sat in that room with a small group of people from all walks of life and perspectives and said, hey, do you want to startup a new country, let&#8217;s tell King George and the establishment of his time to go F themselves&#8230;after throwing all of their tea into a harbor.  Amazing both as a dynamic process and the indelibly sturdy static pattern and model it left behind.  We should never forget our organic origins.</p>
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		<title>By: hayden fisher</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/comment-page-1/#comment-3512</link>
		<dc:creator>hayden fisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zstation/creativeclass/v3/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/#comment-3512</guid>
		<description>...and, come to think of it, that&#039;s pretty much how the Founding Fathers created America...garage-style.  It&#039;s hard to walk through those hallowed Philadelphia halls without wondering what it would have been like to have sat in that room with a small group of people from all walks of life and perspectives and said, hey, do you want to startup a new country, let&#039;s tell King George and the establishment of his time to go F themselves...after throwing all of their tea into a harbor.  Amazing both as a dynamic process and the indelibly sturdy static pattern and model it left behind.  We should never forget our organic origins.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;and, come to think of it, that&#8217;s pretty much how the Founding Fathers created America&#8230;garage-style.  It&#8217;s hard to walk through those hallowed Philadelphia halls without wondering what it would have been like to have sat in that room with a small group of people from all walks of life and perspectives and said, hey, do you want to startup a new country, let&#8217;s tell King George and the establishment of his time to go F themselves&#8230;after throwing all of their tea into a harbor.  Amazing both as a dynamic process and the indelibly sturdy static pattern and model it left behind.  We should never forget our organic origins.</p>
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		<title>By: hayden fisher</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/comment-page-1/#comment-3511</link>
		<dc:creator>hayden fisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zstation/creativeclass/v3/creative_class/2008/02/27/the-sex-pistols-and-economic-development/#comment-3511</guid>
		<description>Yep, concur.  That&#039;s why I love your &quot;messy urbanism&quot; construct.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, concur.  That&#8217;s why I love your &#8220;messy urbanism&#8221; construct.</p>
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