Comments on: Toronto Dialogues http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2008/12/10/toronto-dialogues/ The source on how we live, work and play Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:26:50 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Glen http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2008/12/10/toronto-dialogues/comment-page-1/#comment-8228 Glen Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:13:18 +0000 http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/?p=5577#comment-8228 Fin, I did not suggest that Toronto should cut taxes. What it should do is quickly (ignore the current glacial ETBC program) re-balance the ratios between classes to make job supporting commercial development viable. The surrounding municipalities are not keeping there taxes low at all. The indisputable truth is that Mississauga/Peel, Vaughan/York, et al. have much higher residential taxes. At the same time they spend considerably less than Toronto. Using 2006 data from the Municipal Performance Measurement Program it shows that Toronto spent $8,422 per household in 2006. On the other hand Mississauga and the region of Peel combined, spent $3,848.29 per household. Yet the average residential property tax is $2,300 in Toronto vs. $2,800 in Mississauga (all pre LTT). Toronto has among the lowest residential property tax in the Province and the highest commercial taxes. The commercial taxes have been labeled by the Mayor's own chair of Toronto's Independent Fiscal Review Panel as the highest in the world. This is why Toronto has been bleeding jobs for the last twenty years. I can name few other cities, especially one that aim to be 'world class', that had less jobs in Dec. 2007 than in Dec 1987. More data available here; http://www.fcpp.org/images/publications/52.%20LGPI_08_ONTARIO.pdf Fin,

I did not suggest that Toronto should cut taxes. What it should do is quickly (ignore the current glacial ETBC program) re-balance the ratios between classes to make job supporting commercial development viable.

The surrounding municipalities are not keeping there taxes low at all. The indisputable truth is that Mississauga/Peel, Vaughan/York, et al. have much higher residential taxes. At the same time they spend considerably less than Toronto. Using 2006 data from the Municipal Performance Measurement Program it shows that Toronto spent $8,422 per household in 2006. On the other hand Mississauga and the region of Peel combined, spent $3,848.29 per household. Yet the average residential property tax is $2,300 in Toronto vs. $2,800 in Mississauga (all pre LTT).

Toronto has among the lowest residential property tax in the Province and the highest commercial taxes. The commercial taxes have been labeled by the Mayor’s own chair of Toronto’s Independent Fiscal Review Panel as the highest in the world.

This is why Toronto has been bleeding jobs for the last twenty years. I can name few other cities, especially one that aim to be ‘world class’, that had less jobs in Dec. 2007 than in Dec 1987.

More data available here;

http://www.fcpp.org/images/publications/52.%20LGPI_08_ONTARIO.pdf

]]> By: Fin http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2008/12/10/toronto-dialogues/comment-page-1/#comment-8223 Fin Fri, 12 Dec 2008 07:43:12 +0000 http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/?p=5577#comment-8223 Glen: On a practical level, Toronto could cut taxes a bit if it contracted out more and played tough against the unions. But the notion that it could cut taxes drastically is out of touch with reality. The surrounding suburbs you speak of are keeping taxes low via windfall residential development charges, just like the inner suburbs (now part of the City of Toronto) used to. In time, they'll hit a financial wall and have to make some tough decisions on tax policy. Mississauga is going through it right now. Classic regional political economy. Glen: On a practical level, Toronto could cut taxes a bit if it contracted out more and played tough against the unions. But the notion that it could cut taxes drastically is out of touch with reality.

The surrounding suburbs you speak of are keeping taxes low via windfall residential development charges, just like the inner suburbs (now part of the City of Toronto) used to. In time, they’ll hit a financial wall and have to make some tough decisions on tax policy. Mississauga is going through it right now. Classic regional political economy.

]]> By: Rick http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2008/12/10/toronto-dialogues/comment-page-1/#comment-8213 Rick Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:26:00 +0000 http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/?p=5577#comment-8213 Rich is so tolerant -- a model for the creative class. Kingwell joined the growing chorus calling Rich a huckster -- and Rich says thank you. Rich is so tolerant — a model for the creative class.
Kingwell joined the growing chorus calling Rich a huckster — and Rich says thank you.

]]> By: Glen http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2008/12/10/toronto-dialogues/comment-page-1/#comment-8184 Glen Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:09:03 +0000 http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/?p=5577#comment-8184 As I see it, Kingwell is saying that being creative is not enough initself. If so Toronto would not be what it is today. What you you seem to offer is a list of ingredients to make something special. While I do see merit in that, there are other factors that are going to determine if those ingredients are going to amount to something. For example, with its current tax climate, Toronto (proper) will continue to have difficulty in creating and supporting job growth. As witnessed by the growth of the surrounding regions, the tax climate itself is a driving force in supporting sprawl and poverty. As I see it, Kingwell is saying that being creative is not enough initself. If so Toronto would not be what it is today. What you you seem to offer is a list of ingredients to make something special. While I do see merit in that, there are other factors that are going to determine if those ingredients are going to amount to something. For example, with its current tax climate, Toronto (proper) will continue to have difficulty in creating and supporting job growth. As witnessed by the growth of the surrounding regions, the tax climate itself is a driving force in supporting sprawl and poverty.

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