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	<title>Comments on: Job Sprawl</title>
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	<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2009/04/10/job-sprawl/</link>
	<description>The source on how we live, work and play</description>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2009/04/10/job-sprawl/comment-page-1/#comment-11840</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/?p=9964#comment-11840</guid>
		<description>Just curious how people think the &quot;green&quot; movement will affect cities as employment hubs in the future.  One of Richard&#039;s central tenets is the clustering effect of highly talented, educated people.  If more and more employees are given the option to telecommute because of its positive effect on the environment, will cities lose their luster?  

My personal opinion is that we will never see widespread telecommunting.  It will be offered to more and more government employees, and to the rest of us on a alternating schedule basis.  For example, employees will be grouped by codes and will work from home on a rotation system - perhaps one or two days per week.  

This should really heat up again when gas creaps back up to $4 a gallon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just curious how people think the &#8220;green&#8221; movement will affect cities as employment hubs in the future.  One of Richard&#8217;s central tenets is the clustering effect of highly talented, educated people.  If more and more employees are given the option to telecommute because of its positive effect on the environment, will cities lose their luster?  </p>
<p>My personal opinion is that we will never see widespread telecommunting.  It will be offered to more and more government employees, and to the rest of us on a alternating schedule basis.  For example, employees will be grouped by codes and will work from home on a rotation system &#8211; perhaps one or two days per week.  </p>
<p>This should really heat up again when gas creaps back up to $4 a gallon.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2009/04/10/job-sprawl/comment-page-1/#comment-11751</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 03:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/?p=9964#comment-11751</guid>
		<description>This data is interesting in light of the recent Conference Board report that characterized Toronto as a laggard in economic growth compared to it&#039;s suburbs in the GTA. As has already been mentioned, city taxes were cited as one of the culprits. I also agree with other comments regarding space requirements and access to highways for certain industry clusters (logistics, manufacturing, etc).

What&#039;s I find a little strange is the leading role finance and insurance have played in decentralization, given their tendency to benefit from agglomeration economies. 

It will be interesting to see how the current economic crisis will impact this trend moving forward. How sustainably attractive are pre-fab suburbs in the context of boarded up big-box stores and ghettoized faux-communities? Will city living enjoy a renaissance spurred by notions of sustainability and negative suburban stigma? If so, jobs will certainly follow course and reverse the decentralization trend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This data is interesting in light of the recent Conference Board report that characterized Toronto as a laggard in economic growth compared to it&#8217;s suburbs in the GTA. As has already been mentioned, city taxes were cited as one of the culprits. I also agree with other comments regarding space requirements and access to highways for certain industry clusters (logistics, manufacturing, etc).</p>
<p>What&#8217;s I find a little strange is the leading role finance and insurance have played in decentralization, given their tendency to benefit from agglomeration economies. </p>
<p>It will be interesting to see how the current economic crisis will impact this trend moving forward. How sustainably attractive are pre-fab suburbs in the context of boarded up big-box stores and ghettoized faux-communities? Will city living enjoy a renaissance spurred by notions of sustainability and negative suburban stigma? If so, jobs will certainly follow course and reverse the decentralization trend.</p>
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		<title>By: Buzzcut</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2009/04/10/job-sprawl/comment-page-1/#comment-11650</link>
		<dc:creator>Buzzcut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 13:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/?p=9964#comment-11650</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m predjudiced against Philly, and especially its sports fans.  But that&#039;s neither here nor there.

To what extent has Philly benefited from NYC, Boston, and DC simply pricing people right out of town?

Same goes for Jersey in general.  My brother was priced out of Manhattan, he moved to Jersey City.

These statistical studies have trouble &quot;controling&quot; for such things.

After all, a 2.6% income tax surcharge looks cheap compared to Manhattan&#039;s income tax.  What&#039;s it up to, 10%?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m predjudiced against Philly, and especially its sports fans.  But that&#8217;s neither here nor there.</p>
<p>To what extent has Philly benefited from NYC, Boston, and DC simply pricing people right out of town?</p>
<p>Same goes for Jersey in general.  My brother was priced out of Manhattan, he moved to Jersey City.</p>
<p>These statistical studies have trouble &#8220;controling&#8221; for such things.</p>
<p>After all, a 2.6% income tax surcharge looks cheap compared to Manhattan&#8217;s income tax.  What&#8217;s it up to, 10%?</p>
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		<title>By: Swordsman</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2009/04/10/job-sprawl/comment-page-1/#comment-11643</link>
		<dc:creator>Swordsman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/?p=9964#comment-11643</guid>
		<description>As for raising taxes on the wealthy creating millionaire flight, or job flight, we might want to reconsider that assumption:

http://www.princeton.edu/prior/PRIOReconomy-Final-(2).pdf

In September, 2008 Princeton University’s Policy Research Institute for the Region released “Trends in New Jersey Migration: Housing, Employment, and Taxation” to discover the impact of a 2.6% income tax on everyone making over $500,000 in 2004.

The study found that:

The tax is &quot;an effective and efficient revenue generation mechanism, having little effect on migration patterns among half-millionaire households.&quot;

Since the tax increase, the &quot;number of New Jersey half-millionaires also increased sharply, from about 26,000 in 2002 to 44,000 in 2006 - an increase of 70%.&quot;
 
In fact, the study found that most people who move away from New Jersey move to states that impose even higher income taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for raising taxes on the wealthy creating millionaire flight, or job flight, we might want to reconsider that assumption:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.princeton.edu/prior/PRIOReconomy-Final-(2).pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.princeton.edu/prior/PRIOReconomy-Final-(2).pdf</a></p>
<p>In September, 2008 Princeton University’s Policy Research Institute for the Region released “Trends in New Jersey Migration: Housing, Employment, and Taxation” to discover the impact of a 2.6% income tax on everyone making over $500,000 in 2004.</p>
<p>The study found that:</p>
<p>The tax is &#8220;an effective and efficient revenue generation mechanism, having little effect on migration patterns among half-millionaire households.&#8221;</p>
<p>Since the tax increase, the &#8220;number of New Jersey half-millionaires also increased sharply, from about 26,000 in 2002 to 44,000 in 2006 &#8211; an increase of 70%.&#8221;</p>
<p>In fact, the study found that most people who move away from New Jersey move to states that impose even higher income taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: Swordsman</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2009/04/10/job-sprawl/comment-page-1/#comment-11642</link>
		<dc:creator>Swordsman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/?p=9964#comment-11642</guid>
		<description>Philadelphia (and Baltimore too) sort of gets a bad rap because it is compared to the other three monsters in the Bos-Wash corridor: Boston, New York, and Washington.

If Philadelphia was located in Missouri or Tennessee, it would be a monster in its own right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philadelphia (and Baltimore too) sort of gets a bad rap because it is compared to the other three monsters in the Bos-Wash corridor: Boston, New York, and Washington.</p>
<p>If Philadelphia was located in Missouri or Tennessee, it would be a monster in its own right.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandeep</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2009/04/10/job-sprawl/comment-page-1/#comment-11638</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandeep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/?p=9964#comment-11638</guid>
		<description>Steve and Adrian: In the report, most of the creative jobs tend to be within the first two Burgess rings. Industries that are land intensive and less capital intensive tend to be on the outer edges. Some of those creative jobs that are more than 10 miles from the CBD, are more than likely to be located in a college town. There was a blog posting here, that showed college towns are faring much better than most other towns. It can also be that some these creative jobs, could be back-office work, such as systems support and accounting. Companies tend to place them out in the &#039;burbs. For those who are in the engineering field, many have to work in facilities that tend to be further out on the fringe, and tend to be just as land intensive as warehousing. 

Buzzcut: Only to a degree does Philly scares businesses away from locating there. Philadelphia does offer tax incentives, such as the 10-year tax abatement, which allows anyone who qualifies for a building permit to be exempt from paying taxes for 10 years. Taxes not withstanding, the city of Philadelphia has made significant strides over the past 10-15 years. We have just halted the deterioration that was caused by suburbanization and deindustrialization. More and more neighborhoods have seen rises in their population. There is a drop in crime, of course that drop could always be bigger. Philly does offer benefits that make paying taxes worth it, like the knowledge spillover effect, home to universities, a key node in the Bos-Wash megapolis, many of the cultural and recreational activities offered in other big cities, but at a cheaper price. Philadelphia still has its work cut out, but it could be the next big city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve and Adrian: In the report, most of the creative jobs tend to be within the first two Burgess rings. Industries that are land intensive and less capital intensive tend to be on the outer edges. Some of those creative jobs that are more than 10 miles from the CBD, are more than likely to be located in a college town. There was a blog posting here, that showed college towns are faring much better than most other towns. It can also be that some these creative jobs, could be back-office work, such as systems support and accounting. Companies tend to place them out in the &#8216;burbs. For those who are in the engineering field, many have to work in facilities that tend to be further out on the fringe, and tend to be just as land intensive as warehousing. </p>
<p>Buzzcut: Only to a degree does Philly scares businesses away from locating there. Philadelphia does offer tax incentives, such as the 10-year tax abatement, which allows anyone who qualifies for a building permit to be exempt from paying taxes for 10 years. Taxes not withstanding, the city of Philadelphia has made significant strides over the past 10-15 years. We have just halted the deterioration that was caused by suburbanization and deindustrialization. More and more neighborhoods have seen rises in their population. There is a drop in crime, of course that drop could always be bigger. Philly does offer benefits that make paying taxes worth it, like the knowledge spillover effect, home to universities, a key node in the Bos-Wash megapolis, many of the cultural and recreational activities offered in other big cities, but at a cheaper price. Philadelphia still has its work cut out, but it could be the next big city.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Mohareb</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2009/04/10/job-sprawl/comment-page-1/#comment-11635</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Mohareb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/?p=9964#comment-11635</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting to note what jobs are moving out of the city centres. Transportation and warehousing, finance and insurance, utilities, and real estate and rental and leasing were mentioned.  In some of these cases, there is a real interest in locating out of the centre.  Transportation and warehousing is easier out there; not only is there more space, but traffic snarls from attempting to enter urban cores are avoided.  The other positions follow people closer to their suburban homes. However, I wonder why positions in other fields have concentrated outside of the city centres, and why mining is the only industry to have concentrated towards the centre of cities.  I&#039;m not sure that their position categories capture all relevant forms of employment, and it seems that the most creative industries are less apt to have moved (health, education, arts, information), though professional and management positions have moved more than the average.

I think the authors nail the potential impacts of the increasing suburbanization of jobs on the prospects for economic development:

&quot;The decentralization of employment, by lowering density and interaction among proximate firms and workers, may also lower the rate of innovation. Carlino and colleagues find that across metro areas patenting rates are strongly associated with employment densities in the urbanized portion of those metro areas.7&quot;

I don&#039;t believe this bodes well for environmental sustainability, either. 

A shift to nodal development, where there are centres of development outside of the city centre that act as clusters for employment, day-to-day needs, etc., that provide increased accessibility without dependence on private transport, could mitigate the environmental impact of the suburbanization of work. But would that be considered the creation of new city centres?  Overall, this appears to be a worrying trend.

Those that are against taxes should keep in mind that services need to be paid for somehow.  Creative taxation solutions might work better, though.  This, however, doesn&#039;t seem like the right forum to discuss taxation solutions to encourage the return to urban centres (and I don&#039;t have the expertise to discuss taxation, either!).

Thanks, Richard, for your excellent work.  My brother is doing a Ph.D. with a colleague of yours at U of T, Chris Kennedy, and I am doing similar work on the sustainability of cities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting to note what jobs are moving out of the city centres. Transportation and warehousing, finance and insurance, utilities, and real estate and rental and leasing were mentioned.  In some of these cases, there is a real interest in locating out of the centre.  Transportation and warehousing is easier out there; not only is there more space, but traffic snarls from attempting to enter urban cores are avoided.  The other positions follow people closer to their suburban homes. However, I wonder why positions in other fields have concentrated outside of the city centres, and why mining is the only industry to have concentrated towards the centre of cities.  I&#8217;m not sure that their position categories capture all relevant forms of employment, and it seems that the most creative industries are less apt to have moved (health, education, arts, information), though professional and management positions have moved more than the average.</p>
<p>I think the authors nail the potential impacts of the increasing suburbanization of jobs on the prospects for economic development:</p>
<p>&#8220;The decentralization of employment, by lowering density and interaction among proximate firms and workers, may also lower the rate of innovation. Carlino and colleagues find that across metro areas patenting rates are strongly associated with employment densities in the urbanized portion of those metro areas.7&#8243;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe this bodes well for environmental sustainability, either. </p>
<p>A shift to nodal development, where there are centres of development outside of the city centre that act as clusters for employment, day-to-day needs, etc., that provide increased accessibility without dependence on private transport, could mitigate the environmental impact of the suburbanization of work. But would that be considered the creation of new city centres?  Overall, this appears to be a worrying trend.</p>
<p>Those that are against taxes should keep in mind that services need to be paid for somehow.  Creative taxation solutions might work better, though.  This, however, doesn&#8217;t seem like the right forum to discuss taxation solutions to encourage the return to urban centres (and I don&#8217;t have the expertise to discuss taxation, either!).</p>
<p>Thanks, Richard, for your excellent work.  My brother is doing a Ph.D. with a colleague of yours at U of T, Chris Kennedy, and I am doing similar work on the sustainability of cities.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2009/04/10/job-sprawl/comment-page-1/#comment-11629</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 23:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/?p=9964#comment-11629</guid>
		<description>I guess the creative class doesn&#039;t love cities so much?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess the creative class doesn&#8217;t love cities so much?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike L.</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2009/04/10/job-sprawl/comment-page-1/#comment-11622</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike L.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 00:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/?p=9964#comment-11622</guid>
		<description>Steve asks: &quot;How come jobs are sprawling with the rise of the creative class?&quot;
In my case it is because being &quot;creative&quot; enables me to choose my work-location. I used to work in mid-town NYC. The stress and life-style were killing me. I &quot;sprawled&quot; to the distant suburbs. Perhaps I am not as creative, but I am much happier and likely to live productively much longer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve asks: &#8220;How come jobs are sprawling with the rise of the creative class?&#8221;<br />
In my case it is because being &#8220;creative&#8221; enables me to choose my work-location. I used to work in mid-town NYC. The stress and life-style were killing me. I &#8220;sprawled&#8221; to the distant suburbs. Perhaps I am not as creative, but I am much happier and likely to live productively much longer.</p>
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		<title>By: Buzzcut</title>
		<link>http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2009/04/10/job-sprawl/comment-page-1/#comment-11618</link>
		<dc:creator>Buzzcut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 20:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/?p=9964#comment-11618</guid>
		<description>Uh... why don&#039;t the politicians back off and realize that the taxes are forcing companies to move?  Where does Philly get off imposing a city income tax?

I really had my eyes opened regarding business and taxes when our local assessor mis-assessed US Steel&#039;s mill.  They entered the assessment twice, and charged the mill twice what it was supposed to pay.  They had to refund the overage.

It was $10M dollars.

Where does any city get off charging any business that amount of money?  Other than damage to roads done by trucks hauling steel coils, the company doesn&#039;t deserve to pay anywhere near that much.  They city isn&#039;t providing it any services to speak of.

The same would go for offices downtown.  Like I said, they&#039;re being treated like the golden goose.  They don&#039;t deserve that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh&#8230; why don&#8217;t the politicians back off and realize that the taxes are forcing companies to move?  Where does Philly get off imposing a city income tax?</p>
<p>I really had my eyes opened regarding business and taxes when our local assessor mis-assessed US Steel&#8217;s mill.  They entered the assessment twice, and charged the mill twice what it was supposed to pay.  They had to refund the overage.</p>
<p>It was $10M dollars.</p>
<p>Where does any city get off charging any business that amount of money?  Other than damage to roads done by trucks hauling steel coils, the company doesn&#8217;t deserve to pay anywhere near that much.  They city isn&#8217;t providing it any services to speak of.</p>
<p>The same would go for offices downtown.  Like I said, they&#8217;re being treated like the golden goose.  They don&#8217;t deserve that.</p>
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